BY MR. POTTER:
Q. I'm going to hand you what's been marked
Plaintiff's Exhibit 11, and ask you what that is and to
identify it.
A. Oh, yes, I definitely recognize number 11.
Q. What is it?
A. It is basically a letter saying, from Child
Welfare for child neglect.
Q. What is the basis of their charges?
A. The basis of their charges?
Q. Actually, read the first two sentences.
A. "This is to inform you that you are the
subject of a report of suspected child abuse or
maltreatment received by the State Child Abuse and
Maltreatment Register on 12/11/2000. This means that you
have been identified as the person who is responsible for
causing or allowing to inflict an injury abuse or
maltreatment to the children."
Q. All right, now, when did you receive that
letter?
A. On December 11th.
Q. Is it your understanding that the basis of
that letter is your failure to vaccinate your daughter?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you been in contact with somebody from
child protective services?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And what have they told you?
A. They said that they had inquired about my
daughter being out of school for a long period of time.
Actually, at that time my daughter had the chicken pox,
and the social worker met me, and she wanted to see my
daughter as well. So I was at a restaurant, we had met,
she saw my daughter had the chicken pox. I explained my
daughter had the chicken pox and also there is a problem
aside from that dealing with vaccination, and basically,
I am dealing with that, and with lawyers and that I would
update her as to the status of my situation.
Q. All right. Your daughter has not been in
school since November 30th. How is she being educated?
A. My mother is a teacher, she has the
curriculum for the second grade. She had taught the
second grade in the past and my daughter comes over to her
house on weekends and one day a week I do bring her over.
Q. Is this the same education that she would be
receiving if she were in school?
A. Yes, exactly. Same education.
Q. Why do you say that?
A. Because my mother is a teacher and she has
the same curriculum that is given out and she teaches
District 73 as well, that would be given out to second
graders.
Q. Do you think your daughter's education is
suffering by not being in school?
A. Yes, I think that it's suffering in the sense
that her education is being denied. She needs a full time
education every day, and I think yes, in that sense it is
suffering.
Q. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what
you're telling us is you're lucky to be in a situation
where your mother is actually in the School District and
is able to give her--
MR. COLE: Objection, your Honor. Leading
the witness.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. POTTER: I shouldn't ask the question.
Actually, I'm just restating what she already said.
That's good enough.
THE WITNESS: I am fortunate.
MR. POTTER: I move Exhibits 11 and 8.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. COLE: No objection.
THE COURT: All right, Plaintiff's Exhibits 8
and 11 are moved into evidence. How much more do you have
for this witness?
MR. POTTER: Not much, I do not believe.
THE COURT: Not much is a minute? Five
minutes? Ten minutes?
MR. POTTER: My "not much" would be five
minutes.
THE COURT: Okay, then, take the five
minutes.
BY MR. POTTER:
Q. Have you made any attempt to receive home
schooling information?
A. Yes, my brother had made the attempt for me.
Q. How did he make that attempt?
A. He had gone to the school and asked exactly
how to proceed with doing home schooling legally, and also
the curriculum.
Q. Did your brother relay the information he
received from the school to you?
A. Yes.
Q. After you had that conversation with your
brother, what was your understanding as to whether or not
your daughter would be held back from school?
A. My understanding is, is that there is a very
high chance that she will be held back from school.
Q. Why is that?
A. Because she had missed so many days of
school.
Q. Who did that come from?
A. That came from the principal. Well, it came
from my brother to me, but according to my brother it came
from the principal and the guidance counselor he had
spoken to as well.
Q. Do you believe that vaccinating yourself or
your daughter is a sin?
A. Yes, I certainly do.
Q. What are the consequences of sin, under your
understanding of scripture?
A. My understanding, the consequences is that
you will go to hell if you sin against God.
Q. So what are you going to do if this Court
rules that you have to vaccinate your daughter? Or, I'm
sorry, what if this Court rules that your religious
exemption is denied?
A. I will do home schooling and basically if
they're still speaking about vaccinating my daughter, I
will have her in Vermont for a while, where it is less
stress and there's not as much stress regarding upon
religious exemptions, because my sister lives in Vermont.
THE COURT: Let me make it clear to the
witness, the issue before this Court is not whether you
will be directed to vaccinate your daughter. The issue is
whether you're entitled to an exemption under State law
which would permit you to send your child to school
without vaccinating your daughter.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: So there's no issue here and the
Court is not involved in determining whether you should be
directed to vaccinate your child.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: There's a limited issue before
the Court.
THE WITNESS: I understand.
MR. POTTER: Well, your Honor, I do think
the issues are related, because if the Court ruling says
she does not have the religious exemption, if you read the
statute, it would then require them to be vaccinated and
the child protective services will then come after them
for maltreatment. In fact, that's the basis of the
letter. it's not educational neglect, it's maltreatment.
MR. COLE: Well, the Court stated the issue
succinctly, really, depending upon what the Court rules,
the choice would be up to Ms. Hillman as to how she wanted
to deal with the consequences if the Court were to decline
to grant her application. Then you would have to decide
whether to remain here or go to Vermont
or whatever.
THE COURT: Yes, that's a separate case, and
that would involve a different agency of the government.
That issue is not really before this Court. There's a
more limited issue before the Court, as far as I can tell.
You can brief it, if you want, at the end.
MR. POTTER: Well, no--
THE COURT: I just don't want the witness,
the plaintiff, to misunderstand what the focus of the
Court is in conducting this hearing. This hearing has to
do with whether you are entitled to preliminary relief
that would compel the Board of Education to accept your
daughter as a student, based upon constitutional and
statutory provisions.
MR. POTTER: Right. In any event, the
question has been asked and answered, so I guess that's
all we need from that.
THE COURT: Go ahead, proceed. Do you have
anything else?
MR. POTTER: Actually, no, I have nothing
further.
THE COURT: Okay. We're going to break,
because I need to do something else, and it is lunchtime.
We're going to resume at 2:30, and you can conduct your
cross-examination then.
Do you have anything else right now, any
housekeeping issues?
MR. COLE: Nothing further, although I did
want to mention, the Court had asked me to inquire with
child protective services on that issue, and I did make
inquiry, and apparently, the investigation that is pending
concerning the Hillman family is solely with regard to the
issue regarding the absence from school and they've
assured me that pending a decision from the Court, they
are not going to take any further steps to remove the
child. They're going to wait for the Court to make a
decision before taking any further action in regard to the
administration.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you for making
an inquiry. We'll take it up one step at a time.